In Some States, It Was Illegal For Me To Date Or Marry A White Woman. So What!
66Recently, a woman told me that because I am a black man, I should not be opposed to the legalization of same-sex marriage because, after all, up until not so very long ago, interracial marriage was illegal in many states.
I responded by telling her that if interracial marriage were still prohibited in various states -- or even in every state of the Union -- that would not upset me one bit -- and that is because there are more than enough beautiful and loving black women for me to get married to.
I also expressed to her that comparing the prohibition of interracial marriage to the prohibition of same-sex marriage is the same as comparing apples to bulldozers. The two situations do not have anything in common at all.
For one thing, never in recorded history has a society sanctioned marriage between members of the same sex. In fact, prior to just a few years ago, the vast majority of homosexuals did not even have the desire to marry their “partners”. Or else they did not think in terms of getting married because even they knew that such unions are unacceptable and/or the wrong thing to do.
On the other hand, however, throughout history, the majority of societies have approved of marriage -- and other intimate relationships -- between males and females of different races.
That is quite obvious. Just look at such groups of human beings as southern and southeastern Europeans, Arabs, Polynesians and Latin Americans. One does not have to be an anthropologist to determine that millions of those people are the products of “racial mixing” either recently or in the distant past.
Furthermore, it is as normal as the day is long for a white man and black woman, or a black man and white woman, to “hook up” with each other and get married, if they so desire. It is just that down through the ages, a great many people have disapproved of such unions because they were stupid, ignorant and retarded bigots.
But when it comes to two guys with five o’clock shadows “making whoopee” with each other, or two gals with breasts “getting it on” with each other, those things are as abnormal as the day is long. Somewhere along the line, those people’s wires got crossed. Their brains are misfiring and transmitting garbled or scrambled messages. And anyone with plain-old common sense can clearly see that those things are the case.
Now, I will get back to the woman who told me in so many words that I, as a black man, should be quite pleased that I presently have The Right to marry a white woman.
For one thing, she picked the wrong black man to say something like that to. It would not matter to me one bit if the prohibitions against interracial marriage had never been lifted.
You see, I absolutely adore black and brown females. As a matter of fact, I would walk right past 100 lovely blue-eyed blondes who all want my body real bad to get to one jet-black woman who rings my bell.
Call me biased, prejudiced, bigoted, narrow-minded, I do not care. I am really into “my own women”.
So, I will say it one more time: To those who believe that gays and lesbians should have The Right to get married to each other -- do not tell me that because I now have The Right to marry a white woman, I should hold that very same belief.
That argument does not fly with me.
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Hello, junko,
All I can say is, personally, I am sick and tired of the whole thing. I long for the days when most people -- straight or gay -- had the class and good taste to keep their sexual practices hidden in the closet.
I agree with your statement comparing the prohibition of interracial marriage to the prohibition of same-sex marriage is the same as comparing apples to bulldozers. The two situations do not have anything in common at all.
However, I find life is to short and planetary problems to immense to worry about how two consenting adults choose to live their personal lives. And do not see how letting them form a legal union and reap the benefits of said union in anyway will take anything away from you or me.
I'm with feenix, sexual activity is supposed to be private between two consenting adults, not an advertisement of the ability to screw whomever you choose!
Justsilvie,
Yeah, I'm with you on both counts! Good answer!
I disagree with the statement that comparing gay marriage and interracial marriage is the same as comparing apples and bulldozers....
They both correlate through the concept of government regulation of personal choices..
Feenix disregards this connection...and it is key...
Marriage is not just a title, but it affords rights and privileges that civil unions do not...
http://www.factcheck.org/what_is_a_civil_union.htm
Society has directly (through laws) and indirectly (through social pressures) worked to deny the right of gay men and women to be themselves... just like they did for African Americans...
Mind you, homosexuals have been discriminated against for far, far, far longer then Blacks have... The Bible is over 2000 years old...
Therefore, I reiterate...
The original comparisons do relate through the idea of improper government regulation of what should he an inalienable right....the ability to choose a life partner without discrimination...either because of diminished rights/options or because of outright bigotry..
mikelong,
I do not know if you are black or white ... it doesn't make any difference.
But do not, I repeat, DO NOT, ever use my comments section again to compare anything about black people with anything about homosexuals.
It is quite normal to be black and quite abnormal to be homosexual.
And because you are obviously in favor of same-sex marriage, you need to sit down under a nice shade tree for a very long time and do a whole lot of soul-searching and fact checking yourself.
In my opinion, you need to get your thinking "straight".
I agree with you feenix, to compare a "race" to being "abnoromal" is ludicrous.
People can say what they will....but, being gay IS abnormal. Period!
Trying to make a case between the two as one being the same....amazes me.
Again feenix, I have said it before about you, but I love your honest approach to common sense issues.
Feenix...
Your views on "normality" are flawed... Plain and simple.
You can be a bigot all you like, but that is your choice..
Again...this is about government regulation where it needs not exist...
My thinking is just fine......as for yours....
The proof of what I say is this.....if homosexuality was "abnormal" as you say, why has it persisted for thousands of years? Why have those in authority (those who chose to be hostile to homosexuals) worked so hard to try to get rid of it? Why have they failed?
I think you need to do some soul searching of your own...
Just to jump in here but.....people (adults) 3' tall is abnormal. People 7' tall is abnormal. People weighing 500lbs. is abnormal. Men who want to have sex with men is abnormal. Nothing I stated there is wrong or hateful.
Being black is normal, Being white is normal....sex between male and female is normal.
That is pretty much the whole point to this hub.
feenix, if I am wrong, I apologize for stepping in here.
mikebrown,
Such afflictions and perversions as schizophrenia, pedophila, bestiality, incest, necrophilia and nymphomania have all "persisted" for thousands of years, too.
And one of the primary reasons why all attempts to rid societies of homosexuality have failed is God is not ready to do away with them yet.
Nope, I don't need to do any soul-searching my friend. When it comes to my way of thinking, I am as straight as an arrow. But when it comes to your way of thinking -- all I can say is, WOW! I am really glad that I am not you.
Hello, CM,
You are my very good friend and you are always welcome to visit my comments section and to interject your thoughts.
And once again, you have demonstrated that you are both a logical and linear thinker. And that is one of the reasons why I always respect and admire what you have to say.
Mike Brown? Whatever that means?
Your linking homosexuality to those other traits and characteristics is grossly flawed, and demonstrates simply that you are a gender bigot...
That is all there is to it.
You can try, like other bigots, to justify your gender-based animosity, but they fall flat in reality.
Nature is nature....and homosexuality is by far a natural aspect of the human condition....and humans are not alone in this....
I am very glad that I am not you.....what a sad/angry place to be... And I am doubly glad that your interpretation of God is far, far, far away from me....
I am glad to see that laws are changing, and that the American people are waking up to the reality that homosexuality (LGBT) is not a threat.... I look forward to homosexuals and LGBT men and women being treated as absolute equals to those who are not....
Let freedom ring!
feenix, great hub and some good points are raised. I attempted to marry a beautiful black woman and her family objected heavily and after a few arguments I told her we needed to stop and reconsider all of the ramifications that we would face if we disregarded the elders of her family after her father and I went for coffee and he had a good talk to me about the consequences of life for the children we might have and the tensions of holiday gatherings never becoming peaceful events, though he said in time he would probably himself "get used to it". I considered the getting used to it vs. accepting it and found a wide difference there. After heart breaking talks for both of us the decision was made to discontinue the plans and we saw each other for a while then less and less to a friendship level. She is married and 3 children with 2 grandchildren now and we still, now more often via email trade life events and pictures, she will always be a known friend and I still hold special love for her, we did the right thing and maybe if it were in this era of time it might have turned out different. Sans a fathers blessing and unanimous family's vote of no, I still would have done the right thing based on respect that is seemingly lost in this world at this time. Back then my father just told me to "think the matter through, because you know better, but in the end she was welcomed and would be loved regardless of the world agenda of hate". In the end we both knew better in that era of absolute hate that the world[USA] was in the midst of. It worked out good for the both of us in the end, God never let us down and I doubt he considered us wrong for our love. That's the apples.
The bulldozers don't belong in the lake trying to make smooth water, the just sink and the comparison to humans that are different [my opinion] in visual appearance be it big ears or skin variations don't belong yoked with bulldozers, not even close to the same conversation. Doors have a purpose and there are just somethings that should remain behind closed doors. That includes all sexual events, straight or twisted, I don't want to know or even have conversations with good friends about what their sex life is about between them and their spouses. Back when my father was still alive, a man who didn't say any words that were considered off limits in the 50s, that seem to be prevalent and ok today, he surprised me during the evening news that he was paying attention to while we were visiting and said, "I don't care if they are cock suckers, they just don't need to brag about it". I doubt I'll forget that because it was the first time I had heard him say anything like that and I think it was when the don't ask don't tell debate before it was implemented. It is a spelled out Biblical sin.
I'll shut up here as you have written a good message that I understand and voted up along with several other buttons. Write on! I enjoy your approach to topics like these, Peace and Blessings, dust
feenix, Bro: I'm with you all the way on this one. Same sex unions are according to Almighty God, considered an abomination. God sees it this way and so do I, and even if for some reason God didn't see it this way it is totally unnatural.
By the way, personally I have always seen the black woman as the most beautiful and most desirable women I have seen or met. I would have married one in a heart beat, if I could have found one who wanted me. I must say though here that I have found that black women maybe not all but most, seem to be against inter-racial relationships and marriages. It appears that it weakens the black race for a black woman to marry outside their own. Like I said maybe not all think this way but i have witnessed this first hand with many prior to my marrying my now wife who is Filipina.
mikelong,
I am a "gender bigot?"
Then, dammit, go to the F.B.I. and snitch on me. Let the Bureau know that I am violating the civil-rights of homosexuals and spewing hate speech.
And let freedom ring?!!!
What kind of the freedom?
The same kind of freedom they had in Sodom and Gomorrah?
It's not a crime to be a gender bigot, just like it is not a crime to be a racist...
How are you violating the rights of homosexuals? You have no political or legal power...
You cannot make or put a law into motion...
All you can do is participate in evidently religiously motivated hate speech like this...
Let Freedom ring....the freedom for homosexual men and women to marry one another with the full privileges and rights that heterosexual married couples carry..
It will happen...it is inevitable...and I am happy for it..
As for your "Sodom and Gomorrah"...your attitude proves why there is a distinct separation between church and state....and this division will continue to expand...
The last place that I am going to look for social/political guidance is the obsolete, backward thinking, ethnocentrically biased Bible or its equivalent...
Hi Feenix. I know that your hub was meant to be serious but it is quite humorous as well! Anyway, I think it is patronizing and offensive for homosexuals to compare their "struggles" for "equality" with those of blacks in America. While it "may" be debatable whether people are born homosexual, it IS a choice to be involved in a same-sex relationship. I did not "choose" to be black. Comparing the fights for "equality" and using the Civil Rights Movement of the 50's and 60's to make a case for the rights of homosexual, is a slap in the face of those that were murdered because they had "no choice."
As a black man, I certainly have an affinity towards black women. They are indeed beautiful. But I also love beautiful women of all races!
Great hub and arguments. Thanks for keepin' it real! Voted up, up and away!
Those who consider homosexuality a choice either don't personally know any homosexuals or they are just blind.
Though I am not gay myself, I have known enough over my lifetime to realize unequivocally that this is not the case....
I used to be bigoted against homosexuals... My grandfather being a Christian minister, I was taught to see the LGBT community as a symbol of Satan...I was taught to hate and negatively discriminate.. I learned all about the "dreaded" homosexual agenda that was out to intentionally destroy Christianity... Of course, all of this was also twisted to represent the "signs of the end times"...a stupid fear tactic used by "religious men" (who profit on superstition) to keep the tithe and donation dollars rolling in....to justify that tax-exempt status....
But...
http://www.gaychurch.org/The_Word/Salvation/whosoe
There is an entire world that is denied acceptance regardless of its obvious existence..
But I learned to transcend the ignorance and indoctrination..
Instead of shrinking away and isolating myself from men and women from the LGBT community, I took the time to understand them individually as equal human beings...
The same intolerance of others was inculcated into the minds of the newly formed "white" community in British colonial America...
Those who oppose my viewpoint can continue living in denial, but all they are doing is limiting their ability to perceive the world...
A wasted or partially utilized mind is a sad thing to see...
Go out and meet homosexuals...get to know them as people instead of stereotypes and religiously defined projections...then take the time to ponder what this hub is arguing....
Until then, you can get all the props and kudos you can, but it represents the "blind leading the blind" syndrome...
There is a definite choice concerning how one addresses that dilemma...
Feenix,
I can see your point of view. The Bible, which seems to have heavily influenced your thinking, does not say anything against interracial marriage (if I remember correctly, the only thing it says is that marrying someone of another religion is forbidden, or at least detrimental, correct me if I am wrong). Therefore, from the Bible's point of view, comparing homosexual marriage and interracial marriage really is very different.
However, from the view of homosexuals who are trying to seek marriage with their partners, and people who are pro-gay rights, probably will not see it that way. I myself am for gay marriage, only because I think that the law that the government puts in place, and the law that one brings into their own life willingly through religion, should not mix. If you are against gay marriage, nobody forces you to marry another man. I think the same courtesy should be given to the gay people that are seeking marriage.
I know that is against your beliefs, but isn't it God's job to judge? Our government is not God. You are not God. No one on Earth has the right to "cast the first stone."
At any rate, I did enjoy your article. It made me think a about the reasoning behind both sides of the argument. Thank you for that.
Hello again, Justsilvie,
You are right. Same-sex marriage does not take anything away from me. However, in my opinion, it does do a lot of damage to our society as well as the world as a whole. It sends a highly-destructive signal that this is a time in history in which anything and everything goes.
And one of my mantras is, NO RULES, NO PEACE!
Hello, kateperez,
First, I am very glad to have made your acquaintance.
And as I stated above, I long for the days when one's private life was almost always kept private.
I mean, like, back in the day -- and with the exception of a number of adolescent boys -- the vast majority of people did not go around broadcasting who they rolled with and the ways in which they rolled with them.
mikelong,
I am going to save you some time and energy.
Effectively immediately, your comments are no longer accepted here.
50 Caliber,
I apologize for taking so long to get back to you.
I really do identify with what you went through with the woman you wanted to marry.
Years ago, I was very much in love with a young (black) woman and her parents blocked us from getting married because they considered me to be "from the wrong side of the tracks" and "too poor".
Hello, Dave,
I apologize for taking so long to get back to you.
Quite frankly, I love all females, regardless of their race. However, "my own women" are by far first and foremost on my list.
And I cannot remember if I have said this to you in awhile, but you are a real swell guy and I am very glad to have you as a friend.
Dexter,
Thank you very much for your generous comment, my good friend.
And as I just said to Dave, I love all women, too, regardless of their race.
And I do not have to tell you that you and I are on the same page when comes to making comparisons between the "black struggle" and the "homosexual struggle."
Once again, thank you. And please don't think that my not reading any of your hubs in awhile is a sign of self-centeredness on my part. It is just that I am attempting to reach a few goals here on HubPages, causing me to fall behind on my reading of other writers' hubs. But, in the near future, I will start catching up.
Hello, nikki_m
First, welcome to HubPages and I am very glad to have made your acquaintance.
You know, I really do like the way you presented your feelings and opinions to me. They were thorough and well written but, most of all, you were tactful and courteous.
And you are so right when you say that government is not God and neither am I.
When you come right down to it, I am just another jerk with an opinion about something -- and you know what is said about opinions.
Thank you Feenix. Not to get biblical or anything since there are many experts on the Bible. In Genesis, Soddom and Gomorrah were deliberately destroyed by the Lord Himself because of the outrageous behavior there. All throughout the Bible it is very clear about the curses of homosexual unions. It's all called SIN and has been around since the beginning of time and yes stealing, killing, murder are all wrong and God does not approve of any of it. It amazes me to see how many people think that God is going to wink at their wrongdoing. Thank you for you Hub, it's right on target.
Hello, Guanta,
Thank you very much for your thoughtful comment.
And like you said, a great many people are walking around unaware that their "sinful" actions and behavior will have dire consequences.
feenix: I am honored to call you my friend and my brother. Even though you have a better tan than I have, I know we are cut from the same piece of cloth if you will, for our thoughts agree in many ways.
feenix, for most of my life I have known what is now called gay people. However, they did not parade all over the place as if they were in a two ring circus. Everyone knew they were ( whatever the term was)but they for the most part kept to themselves. This push for exposure has the signature of a hidden hand. Exceptional hub I vote it up useful and of course awesome. Have a nice day.
platinumOwl, my friend,
Thank you for the compliment and the vote.
I come from a time when even the average heterosexual kept his/her sexual proclivities or practices "hidden in the closet."
For instance, in my work places, the only guys who talked about their sex lives around the water cooler were the office jerks.
And,in my opinion, one of the primary reasons why so many homosexuals are presently out there shouting about how much pride they have and seeking the right to get married to each other is, they are making a desperate and pathetic attempt to legitimize an illegitimate way of life.
God Bless you Feenix, you have innate spiritual wisdom which allows you to deflect the shackled sentiment of one very troubled commenter. You have countered every argument beautifully. I am equally glad that you decided to publish a hub on this subject; I have wanted to write about homosexuals equating their miniscule acceptance struggles with that of the true racial inequity. It would have been difficult for me to make the point as salient as you have. God be with you, keep his wisdom flowing.
Hi feenix, you commented
"I responded by telling her that if interracial marriage were still prohibited in various states -- or even in every state of the Union -- that would not upset me one bit -- and that is because there are more than enough beautiful and loving black women for me to get married to."
Gosh feenix, you are not defending the idea that anyone has the right to tell 2 consulting adults that they cannot marry due to racial reasons, are you? To each his own, but limiting your selection is your thing, I guess, but that is not my way. I will marry anyone that strikes my fancy and who is of similar mind.
P.S. Nice ditty by Barbara Mason, but I am partial to "Yes, I am ready"
Hello again to you to Feenix,
I strongly agree with your NO RULES, NO PEACE stance. Without rules our society will collapse.
But there are so many problems facing us that need our attention NOW, the environment, the economic crisis, famine, war, everyday crime and violence in our neighborhoods. This to me is what is keeping us from having a peaceful existence.
I just could not find it in my heart to condemn love between two consenting adults. But it is nice to be able to discuss this subject and others in a respectful and adult manner, not something always a given on the net.
Have a happy and healthy weekend!
Hello, Jason,
Thank you very much for adding your excellent and thoughtful comment to this section.
You obviously have the gift for viewing things in their proper perspective and I admire and respect you for that.
Credence2,
I am a normal red-blooded American boy; therefore, when you come right down to it, I love all women, regardless of their race, creed or national origin.
It is just that I was attempting to make a very important point here. A great many whites, especially a considerable number of white men, believe that black men have have a "King Kong-like attraction" to white women. Many tend to believe that black men favor white women over their own black women.
Well, in this hub, I set out to straigten them out on that score.
And so far as Barbara Mason, I, too, am impartial to her song "Yes, I'm Ready." It is just that "You Can Depend On Me" was appropriate for the theme of this hub.
And actually, Bill "Smokey" Robinson and the Miracles sang the original version of "You Can Depend On Me" and Robinson wrote the song.
Hello, Justsilvie,
I am really glad to hear from you again.
And you know, I essentially agree with what you said so far as our having a whole lot of problems confronting us that are far more critical than something like the altering of the institution of marriage.
In fact, the more I think about it, the more trivial or unimportant the same-sex marriage issue becomes. As time goes on, that situation is becoming less-and-less important and worrisome to me.
Feenix, I agree that sex should be private and sacred.
I know I am sick of seeing ads on men with Erecticle Dysfunction. A man looking so sad and blue in the first ad and then in the next ad there he is with a big smile that says, "I am back." A very sensitive issue for a man I am sure but it is not a life or death matter like cancer.
I will end my comments with a question. Why is our society so obsessed with sex?
Hello, Sueswan,
Quite often, I wonder why am I so obsessed with sex? ;-)
Seriously, though, you are quite right. Nowadays, there is just too much personal stuff out in the open. In my opinion, that is barbaric behavior.
Well written and thoughtful hub. Though I don't agree with everything you said up there, you did provide some reasonable arguments against same-sex marriage. I agree that rules are important but I feel there can be no rules regarding whom you are allowed to marry.
Hello, TicksProfessional,
Thank you very much for your generous comment.
I guess much of the way I think concerning marriage is heavily influenced by the fact that I am really into girls, girls, girls ;-)
Doesn't it seem hypocritical that most people can accept gay and lesbian couples but not interracial couples?
The only thing is that interracial couples are straight and therefore right in the Lord God's eyes and gay/lesbian couples are the total opposite.
Hello, pelt545,
It is as hypocritical as is can be when people accept same-sex unions but not interracial heterosexual ones. You are right about that.
And as you also said, interracial heterosexual couples ARE right in the eyes of God and homosexual ones ARE NOT, period.
junko Level 5 Commenter 10 months ago
If there were laws passed to make legal civil unions and allow benefits and rights, what's the need for same sex weddings? What is the improvement, just curious?