The Battles Against The Spook Hunters
85
Today, Los Angeles, California has a very negative reputation. Many regard that city as the street-gang capital of the U.S., if not the world. And that is because it is the home of such notorious black gangs as the “Crips” and “Bloods” and such “Latino” ones as the “18th Street Gang”, “MS 13” and “Florencia” (each of which is a subsidiary of the “Mexican Mafia”).
It is widely believed that those gangs and others in inner-city Los Angeles were formed by a bunch of “bad boys” and “gangstas” for the purpose of doing such things as carrying out drive-by shootings, fighting against one another, staking out their “turf”, selling drugs and intimidating local residents.
Well, that is only partially true. So far as those gangs doing such things as carrying out drive-by shootings, fighting against one another, staking out their “turf”, etc., all of that is true. However, they did not stem from the ambitions of “bad boys” and “gangstas”. Essentially, each of those “organizations” grew out of a need by blacks and people of Mexican descent to protect themselves from brutal attacks by violent white racists.
I will get back to that, after I briefly discuss my background and a bit of Los Angeles history.
I am black, I was born in Los Angeles in mid-1940s, and I was a resident of that city until 1979 when I relocated to New York City, my current place of residency.
Both of my parents were born and raised in New Orleans and like a great many other blacks who were living in southern Louisiana and Texas at the time, they moved to Los Angeles in the early 1940s, shortly after the U.S. declared war on Japan and Germany.
Prior to December 7, 1941, when the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor, Los Angeles had a population of about two million and blacks accounted for just over five percent. However, once the “War” got underway, blacks began moving to the city in droves which resulted in their portion of the population jumping all the way up to 10 percent, or doubling in size.
On top of that, large numbers of Americans of Mexican descent began moving away from the rural and agricultural regions around Los Angeles to settle in the city.
And the arrival of all of those black and brown people did not sit well with a sizable number of the city’s white residents. In fact, a great many of the whites were “fit to be tied”. They were furious over the fact their “sun-washed paradise by the sea” was being invaded by thousands-upon-thousands of “spooks” ’n “spicks”.
So, during the late 1940s, shortly after the end of World War II, a number of southern-California whites -- largely comprised by war veterans -- began banding together and ended up forming such “anti-minority gangs” as “Hell’s Angels” and the Los Angeles-based “Spook Hunters”.
Then, it was “on”. Members of those groups, and frequently with the backing of the Los Angeles Police Department and Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department, began carrying out violent attacks against black and Hispanic individuals as well as predominantly-black-and-Hispanic communities. Quite a number of blacks and Hispanics were maimed and murdered and many of their homes and businesses were badly damaged or destroyed altogether.
However, those attacks did not go unanswered. In almost no time, blacks formed their own gangs and Americans of Mexican descent formed their own. Then they went about the business of defending themselves and their communities from the whites who were out to get them, and they also carried out retaliatory strikes on various all-white communities.
To make a long story short, by the early 1950s, the white-racist groups had ceased to carry out attacks against blacks and Hispanics. In fact, by that time, they never came anywhere near a black or Hispanic community and always did every thing they could to avoid getting into “rumbles” with the blacks and browns. Things had reached the point where those whites were downright afraid of the people they had been knocking around and bashing just a short time before.
The most remarkable thing about that reversal was when the blacks and Hispanics were under siege by white racists, they did not whine and complain about it to the media and influential white liberals in Washington and other high places. Nor did they get down on their knees and plead with government for protection.
They took care of business the good-old American way. They took matters into their own hands.
Nearly identical to the ways in which the settlers in the Old West frequently banded together to defend themselves against attacks from outlaws and others who were out to get them, the blacks and Hispanics of 1940s and 1950s Los Angeles banded together to defend themselves against the ones who wanted to harm them.
One of the most significant things that grew out of the self-defense on the parts of blacks and Hispanics in Los Angeles was a spirit of self-reliance. During the 1950s and early 1960s, the vast majority of black and Hispanic neighborhoods in that city, including many of the poorest ones, were essentially self-contained.
For example, in the all-black neighborhood that I grew up in during the 1950s and 1960s, nearly all of the local businesses -- including super markets, five-and-dime stores, construction/general-contractor companies, mortuaries, movie theaters, restaurants and filling stations -- were owned and operated by blacks. And most of the residents who lived in houses owned their homes and the renters almost always rented from other blacks.
Furthermore, each of the all-black public schools I attended (from K to 12) provided good educations that prepared their pupils to be productive members of society -- and that was largely because a great many of the parents were “involved”.
Also, even though my neighborhood was a poor one, it was clean and orderly, and the residents could safely walk the streets 24/7 -- and that was mostly because many of the local residents did not stand for such things as groups of males loitering on street corners, individuals failing to keep their homes in good repair and young children running around in the streets late at night and unattended.
In summation, the poor black neighborhood I grew up in was a very decent place, and an ideal area in which to run a business and raise children.
But along came such left-wing liberal undertakings as the Civil Rights Movement, War on Poverty, the Great Society, the sexual revolution and freedom of choice.
And those undertakings hit my neighborhood, and numerous similar ones around the country, like a hydrogen bomb.
Because of the Civil Rights Movement’s big push to integrate blacks into all-white communities and schools, most of the “leading citizens” in my neighborhood moved away, causing the area to become a place in which the vast majority of the residents were poor and troubled people who did not have the means and get-up-and-go to keep things going. Or, in other words, when the “leading citizens” of the neighborhood moved away to live next door to whites, my neighborhood transformed into a filthy, crime-ridden “ghetto” -- and the same thing happened in large urban centers all over the U.S.
Because of the steady and constant flow of handouts that streamed from the War on Poverty and Great Society programs, millions of blacks, especially poor ones, lost the will to be self-reliant and to “pull themselves up by their own bootstraps”. They became permanent “wards of the State” and profoundly reliant on government for nearly every aspect of their lives. And that translates to the large and growing number of able-bodied welfare recipients on the scene today who refuse to make any effort to find work.
Because of the widespread permissiveness that grew out of the sexual revolution and legalization of abortion (frequently referred to as freedom of choice) a very large number of Americans, with blacks accounting for a disproportionate share, have the attitude that such things as “sex without strings”, “booty calls” and “friends with privileges” are IN, and such things as celibacy and the institutions of marriage and family are OUT.
In addition, the relaxation and removal of many of the rules that keep a society orderly and civilized (which began happening in the mid-1960s) has caused the groups that were established to defend blacks from harm to transform into vicious gangs of thugs that are far more dangerous and deadly than the white-racist ones were.
The way I see it, the situation for blacks in Los Angeles, for instance, has reverted to where it was in the late 1940s. Once again, they are under siege by forces that are bent on harming them and keeping them down.
However, there are a couple of big differences. First, opposite of the way a great many blacks were in the late 1940s, most of the ones today do not have the will and the courage to take matters into their own hands to address the serious social and economic problems that are presently plaguing their society.
Second, all of the left-wing liberal factions that are bent on keeping large numbers of blacks overly-reliant on such things as welfare, set-asides and subsidized housing -- along with all the vicious street gangs in black communities -- are the present-day Spook Hunters.
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Your articles are so intriguing that it’s easy to overlook what a splendid writer you are. Let me first congratulate you on both your inborn talent and the work I know you had to put in to become such a good writer.
I knew that the black communities used to be the most moral of all communities, but I was unaware of white gangs like the Hell’s Angels attacking minorities. Having lived in the deep South in the early fifties, I am very familiar with the racism of those days.
As you noted, the old west was somewhat different. When you have time:
Druid Dude, thank you for your comment and vote. And I'm curious about the place upstate. Is it near that area where Ray Liotta, Robert DeNiro and Joe Pesci buried the body of that "made man" they beat to death in that bar?
Will, thank you for your comment and the compliment. It is really an honor to receive that kind of a compliment from a highly-talented writer like yourself.
And I just took a quick look at the hub you referred me to. I am going to read it ASAP and let you when I've finished doing so.
Feenix, a very enlightening and thought provoking article.
I don't understand why the leading citizens moved out of the neighbourhood? Was it only because of the big push by the civil rights to integrate blacks into all white neighbourhoods?
l was left with the impression that the impoverished citizens felt that they had been abandoned.
Sueswann, thank you for your comment.
The primary reason why most of the "leading citizens" departed from the all-black neighborhoods is they had been led to believe that they would be better off living among whites.
And you are right. The majority of the impoverished and troubled blacks who were left behind did feel that they had been abandoned.
Now, that is a out standing hub, so very true. "If you want something to play with, go and find yourself a toy" Tell it like like it is, Feenix. You sound like an echo, I've said the same things many times in other words. To add to your difference and reason of than and now, I would add the lack of jobs and a quality education. This country needs jobs for anybody who wants to work, and not for slave wages. It's too easy for people to say that other people don't want to work, knowing there's no work be be found. Vote up.
junko, thank you very much for your generous comment and for your loyal support.
And, yes, you're right. More jobs that pay decent wages are needed.
I must admit that I know almost nothing about this time and issue. I do know justice and honor belong to those who are wronged. There are many ways to handle the search for justice. I offer integrity, commitment and prayer be at the forefront.
Feenix, great history, great truth, great hub! Your writing and honesty is refreshing. Growing up in a middle class black neighborhood, I can relate to how things were and now, how things have become. I learn more and more from you, sir and I thank you.
Hi Feenix
Excellent and well written article of buried truth. It's funny how something so prevalent can be "buried away" throughout the generations. People of America are definitely entitled to some awareness, truth and acknowledgment of the past so that they can better understand the truth hidden within the present. Everyone may have varying opinions and reactions, but at least they know the truth. I can honestly say that although I am familiar with the gangs and the names, this is my first time hearing about their original purpose as told in this way. Thank you for sharing your wisdom for all generations.
-Latasha W.
Hyphenbird, thank you very much for taking the time to read this hub and for your comment.
And I fully agree that integrity, commitment and prayer should be at the forefront of searches for justice and all other endeavors.
Dexter, thank you very much for the compliment and for being one of my greatest supporters. I am really glad that you and I are friends.
Latasha, I am glad that you found this hub as informative as you did. That gives me a great deal of satisfaction because I really do respect you as a writer, a leader and a person.
I'll be visiting your pages today so I can learn a few things, too.
Great history, written in a direct and forthright style!
I always learn something form your writing feenix.
Thank you!
Curiad, thank you very much for taking the time to read this hub and for the compliment. Later today, I will be paying a visit to your pages. I like your style, too.
You have a fantastic talent for explaining such situations that many of us really have never comprehinded. I am hooked on your hubs and it has been, somewhat humbling to understand a whole new perspective of how things really were. I have led a fairly shielded life. In many ways that has been fortunate, and in other ways I find it disturbing.
Please continue to write as you are led...I think your messages are impacting others in a postive manner. At least it may open dialogue and "food for thought".
Up, useful and awesome.
Feenix, I as Will enjoy your writing style and skills, you get my attention and hold it start to finish.
Los Angeles 1995 was my last time to visit, a place that my late wife [Jewish] visited and to give you the exact area I'd have to get out the old Rolodex. We visited a then elderly black woman who actually is the one who raised my wife, her rich parents didn't seem to have the time. They did pick well as for a surrogate mother. I was fascinated by the hours spent at her table eating and talking, she was a sweet lady and a cook with many skills, I suspect she may well have been "Gulla" as she had relocated from the Florida area where, as I learn, was a largely Gulla area. Check out "Habee" hear on the pages, she did an excellent article on them and it dipped to there language and cooking, very interesting.
I'm quite familiar with the "bad" of LA, I spent a few weeks building and welding a wrought iron prison for Moms home, a six foot total enclosure and window and door enclosures as well. The home was stucco and all the window guards were made with a quick release that allowed them to fold down in the event of fire and needed escape route. It was common for Molotov gasoline "bombs thrown at homes that were set up with extreme protection from area gangs wanting protection money from even the poor, the fences were built akin to what the military now calls "hillbilly armor" designed to catch shoulder fired rockets and cause the detonation 12 inches or more from PBRs in the delta areas of Nam and I still see it used in our current wars. Moms caught several attempts by breaking the glass and the fire was held at the perimeter. It was disheartening to see folks living in a place that required such extreme measures for a safe haven in a war zone of racist acts. It wasn't whites vs blacks, it was human of peace vs. gangs making life limited to indoors living. She rode the buses, and when we visited she rode with us to any place she wanted to go and get a meal or visit grocery stores that she couldn't go and buy things and not have them taken from her by thugs on the buses that were not held accounted for even after the camera installations on buses to monitor and ID the perpetrators of the crimes. Instead of prosecuting they required the victim to swear out a warrant and appear in court for a grand jury indictment, thus ID was made and gate or not retribution was then used as a scare tactic or worse to get either a recant of their statement or worse to end the case allowing them to go free and return to the same harassment of the person. Same race against same race. Mom passed with a heart failure shortly after I had started my process of moving, I was able to attend the services. She was an awesome woman caught up in what was, in the beginning a nice neighbor hood and the disease of ignorance "white flight" took over and made it what it is today.
I may be totally off the subject you meant to breach here. I just am picking up in my comment. I just feel that whites swear they are not racist, but put them in a $250,000 association fee community in a cul-de-sac of 6 town homes and have a black family move in, then a Mexican family and for fun an Asian family then the definition:cul-de-sac
n. pl. culs-de-sac (klz-, klz-) or cul-de-sacs (kl-)
1.
a. A dead-end street.
b. An impasse:
Comes true there will be an immediate impasse on a dead end street, the whites will plant real-estate company signs as soon as it comes feasible for them and sell out running for cover. I owned a duplex in Santa Ana, Ca. and it was a bunch of honkeys around me who sold and ran, in 3 years I was the only white guy left. A biker and keg parties every month going door to door inviting all my new neighbors and we became friendly acquaintances with no problems except it drove the value down on the homes [lower property tax and the association ran by whites at 300 a month dues left the area as well]and I think the trade off was worth while, instead of every one duplex identical, things got personalized and turned to a fun place to live with educational benefits of new and different cultures.
You mentioned a couple of things I'll get up with you about for some possible education on.
voted you up!, 50
50 Caliber, thank you very much for the comment and I am certainly familiar with the kind of conditions that your mother-in-law had no other choice but to live in.
Years ago, when I was a young man, L.A. was nearly an ideal big city in which to live. But, ever since the 1965 Watts Riots, almost everything there that has to do with the quality of life has been going downhill.
Because of such things as gang activity and the high amount of burglaries committed by illegal immigrants, most of my family members and friends are prisoners in their own homes. There are "burglar bars" on all of the windows of their houses and both the front and back doors of the homes are made of re-inforced steel and wrought iron.
L.A. has a pretty good police force but it is impossible for it to rein in all of the criminal activity that is going on in that city.
CMerritt, thank you very much for the compliments and votes. I am truly humbled.
Similar to what you said, I believe that I have an obligation to make contributions that will possibly give others "food for thought" and new insights.
And my objective is to bring us all closer together than we are.
Hello, Feenix, I believe that I can relate a little. I lived in Southern California, Riverside County for 5 years. A few of these years coinciding with the period you were there.
“The most remarkable thing about that reversal was when the blacks and Hispanics were under siege by white racists, they did not whine and complain about it to the media and influential white liberals in Washington and other high places. Nor did they get down on their knees and plead with government for protection.”
Point is well taken, but it was likely that had they complained nothing would have been done about it anyway, As Malcolm X had said the Black man’s insistence of the right to self defense was always intimidating to whites. That principle could extend to all non-whites. Here, as in the south, it was unlikely that justice would have done. In the history of race riots initiated by whites for whatever, with whole towns being obliterated during first half of the last century, the need for justice and restitution was certainly not first and foremost in the minds of the authorities.
We should have used the social programs to augment rather than replace the spirit of self reliance you speak of. It is natural for people who have the means to seek better for themselves, now possible with desegregation, and particularly in Southern California, where the dollar was king. Who doesn't want the privilege of living whereever they can afford to? Separate is not necessarily equal, Nat King Cole who was a resident there was not going to move into a poor neighborhood as he had the choice. This is a capitalist society, who has the fortitude to stand for principle in the face of bigger cars, newer and more spacious homes, better schools for the kids? Under rigid segregation, you had no choice, now you do, which would you choose? The flood of talent that left the old time black communities was unfortunate, but not unexpected
Credence2, real cool comment, my friend.
First, and as an aside, I remember when Nat King Cole and his family moved into that very upscale section of L.A. called Hancock Park. I was just a little boy but I clearly remember that incident because it was the talk of the town. And during that same time, he had his own TV show and it was very popular.
And you said, "We should have used the social programs to augment rather that replace the spirit of self-reliance ... "
Now that makes a whole lot of sense to me and I fully agree with that statement. As a matter of fact, I believe that someone (me ;-) ) should organize and lead a bold new movement based on that concept.
Feenix, she wasn't my mother in law, she was my beacon of decency that I took to calling "Mom" it made her smile so big and she was so kind that you couldn't,"not" love her.
I have pretty clear memories of the Watts riots and was in LA at her home during the Rodney King riots. I remember taking food and guns and plenty of ammunition to keep us safe and away from not leaving her home until things settled down. Afterward, I went twice a month to drive her to the grocery because the rioters burnt their own grandmothers stores, a peek thought that I'll never understand why they didn't go to the rich side of town and destroy it instead, dust
50 Caliber, I apologize for the error. Because I am a senior citizen, my mind misfires or malfunctions once in awhile.
And one thing I have never been able to understand about rioters is their destroying their own neighborhoods. Talking about "stupid is what stupid does".
feenix, that made me laugh, I'm in the senior boat and get misfires quite frequently, so if I ever offend you it will be an accident, but let me know so I might make it right, Peace and love, dust
50 Caliber, thank you for being so gracious. And yeah, we fellers who are, er, getting along in years have to look out for each other.
Thank you for your excellent Hub Feenix. Frankly I don't see anything wrong with separate but equal. Being of Hispanic descent, I have many different types of friends, but there is something very comfortable and common about getting together with my own group which I enjoy. I can later go out into the bigger world and reconnect with others. I think politicians have done many of us a great deal of harm with their idea of 'forced intergration.' Thanks again.
Why, I just don't believe you, Sir -everyone knows that cops are the GOOD GUYS! They only SERVE and PROTECT - especially they SERVE and PROTECT poor people!!!!!
(obviously, right? It's why we build prisons at a profit for stock holders, and lock up the poor - cuz dem rich folk is more equal than others)
You know - I don't doubt you at all, your description of the neighborhood you grew up in; when you FORCE people to "get along and integrate". . . wait, you can force people to get along and integrate, right?
LOL!
Anytime Rockefeller money is behind something - you know already that the poor will suffer, and that family structure and stability is the target. Satanist tend to not care for anyone, in my experience.
Guanta, thank you very much for your comment. And I'm with you. When the government gets involved and forces different groups of people to integrate with one another, nothing comes out of that but a whole lot trouble.
Wesman, Satanists certainly do not care for anyone, and they are the ones who are causing our society to be plagued by as many ills as it is.
feenix, when you have so much money that more money cannot possibly satisfy you in the least - there is nothing left for you but to have more control over the "slaves" like you and I, and to think yourself a "God." Twas in the allegory of the Garden,
"ye shall be like Gods!"
The first lie was obvious - we all die, the second lie is still embraced by those with nothing to gain but Hell.
Wesman, very good observation and you described it brilliantly. Earlier today, a friend and I talked about all of the "Gods" that are among us today.
Liked this one very much...very well done and your message is quite clear. I love the way you extract color from the argument and make the point on the basis of simple logic. It quickly points out that skin-color does not always predict outcome. Growing up in the south, I was on the tail-end of the visual KKK. I remember driving down the highway in the backseat of my parents car one night and passing a field in which a large cross was burning with people covered in sheets all around it. I remember asking my dad what was going on and he simply replied, "it's a klan meeting". I didn't know what that was but I knew it didn't feel good to me...I could feel the sinister nature of it as I peered at that burning cross through the glass of the car window. In my college years, a classmate approached me and several others to join the organization...the old thoughts came clearly into my mind and I quickly left the room. White supremacy and other organizations you refer to do a great job of making losers of all of us and in too many cases it puts money in someone in that organization's pocket at the expense of their own people...what a sell-out! Humanity has a lot of ugly faces but lost among those are some very pretty ones...the ones we need to always look for as all of us Americans work to keep the country we have from disappearing. Thanks for sharing. WB
Wayne, what a wonderful comment. You demonstrated that you are a person who always seeks the "good" rather than the "evil", or that you are not one who merely sits back and idly critiques and spew cynical words.
I have a great deal of respect for you.
Feenix,
One of the best Hubs I've ever read.
Sadly, you are right that the nanny-state is perversely perpetuating the problem it is intended to solve, and at great expense.
And even worse, the nanny-state has now become the control-state. At some point, a DOI inspired citizen revolt could occur. I think Obama is very frightened about this. He first floated a number of proposals to limit the Second Amendment (Govorner's Conference EO, UN Small Arms Treaty, AG Firearm Confiscation Bill). Next he floated the idea of a "Citizen Army" not subject to posse comitatus. Now he's considering a bill that will allow the professional army to violate posse comitatus on presidential fiat, completely bypassing Senate ratification on the use of the military, both at home and abroad. Whether all this is to quell a citizen revolt, impose marshal law to suspend elections, impose dictatorship, or a combination, the potential implications are ominous.
Stu
Stu, I can already see that you and I have a whole lot in common. Largely because Americans today are willing to give up so many of their rights (e.g the right to bear arms)the U.S. is careening towards some kind of a dictatorship or state of martial law.
And thank you, Stu, for the high compliment you paid me. I really do feel honored.
I've read this hub twice now, its so good. Thanks for posting feenix!
You're welcome, bethperry, and thank you for the compliment.
Hi Feenix,
You're most welcome.
I tend to agree that the risk of martial law leading to dictatorship cannot be dismissed. My feeling is that Obama is too narcissistic to give up the throne. Unless he believes he will win in 2012 legally (or via vote fraud), I think there is a serious risk that he will stage some event (e.g., riots by supporters) as a pretext to declare marshall law, suspend elections, and remain in power indefinitely with most state/citizen powers suspended; i.e., dictatorship.
Sadly, what you're dealing with here is someone who combines the evil "state-craft" of Woodrow Wilson with an almost insatiable hunger for power and cult worship. How he hid all this during the presidential debates is pure genius. He pulled off the greatest bait-and-switch of all time, getting voters to elect what they tought was a mainstream liberal, successfully hiding his real aim of transnational socialism.
The question now is whether or not we can get rid of him without violence. I hope and pray that this is the case, but I fear he won't make it easy.
Stu
Cmon, Stu, isnt this a bit beyond the pale? I am more worried about the rise of the right and the "lock and load" culture as the real source of the next insurrection. I just don't know where you guys get this stuff from?
Credence,
The "lock and load" crowd (ultra right wing secessionary groups like the KKK, American Nazi's, Christian Identity, etc.) is a very tiny group.
At present, Obama and his coterie of liberation theologists in government and the public is the greater imminent threat.
An exception might be a DOI inspired revolt, but this may ultimately be perfectly legal. According to the DOI, if federal tyranny becomes excesive, and all peaceful means of redress fail, the people have a legal right to abolish and replace federal government by force. This force may legally include the use of arms, per the Second Amendment, and the military may not interfere (posse comitatus).
At present, I feel only half the test is met. Obama's serial violation of the Constitution (primarily abuse of enumerated powers, the Interstate Commerce Clause, the Necessary and Proper Clause, and the General Welfare Clause), as well as constant breach of affirmative duty (selective prosecution by the DOJ, failure to secure the border, failure to expel illegals, failure to enforce DOMA, etc.) displays a clear pattern of federal tyranny. But it can hardly be said that all peaceful means of redress have been exhausted. There are still many emails to Congress to write, many petitions to be signed, many rallies to be held, an election coming next year, etc.
It is most definitely true that Obama has awakened what may have been a sleeping giant - Americans that genuinely care that Founder intent for the Constitution really be obeyed, fiscal sanity be restored, and free markets be allowed to flourish without federal interference. Prior to Obama, the TPM was really nothing much more than a theoretical idea. Now it is a massive grassroots movement, with millions of members. But as a member of two TPM organizations (one state, one national), and having gotten to know some of my compatriots (some at the top level), I can say without risk of error that this is not a "lock and load" crowd. We simply want to use peaceful means (the polls) to eliminate "big federal power" and return to the legacy of inalienable individual rights and state (as opposed to federal) centric government that the Founders intended.
Stu
Hi, Stu ,of course I disagree. I visit feenix' parlour to learn more about the right and their way of thinking about things. It would not be polite to have a distracted discourse here. But I would sure like to discuss this further. I am concerned that the right will use means outside of the democratic process to take control because they are against progressive leaders. You guys would'nt resort to 2nd amendment remedies if you cannot win through proper channels, would you? What are you prepared to do if the majority voted in progressives the next time are you prepared to accept the fact "that the people have spoken"?
Sorry, Stu, I missed part of your previous response, YOU folks do want to make whatever transition in government you seek peaceful and within the democratic process...
Stu, I hear you. The left, not the right, has a recent track record of using the federal government to shove stuff down Americans' throats (i.e. law-enforced integration of schools and communities, "bussing", the "national legalization of abortion", and so-called clean-air/water regulations). And then there are the attempts by both Hillary Clinton and Obama to nationalize healthcare and medical insurance.
Credence2, you "visit feenix' parlour to learn more about the right and their way of thinking about things"?
Man, that is really flattering.
Well feenix, I am certainly not going to learn much from my idological kindred which whom I communicate all of the time. Enjoy your Tuesday/ this was meant to be flattering. It is late here and could not sleep decided to play with the keyboard
Hi Credence, NP, Stu
feenix,
Great writing, enlightening detail, unassailable TRUTH!! Unless and until more blacks stand up to address the problems within their own culture, nothing will improve. Of course, I see the way Bill Cosby was received when he dared to speak the truth!
Sheri, thank you for the compliment. And you are quite right. Nothing is going to change until more blacks stand up and address the disproportionate levels of social and economic problems that are plaguing their societ today. And yes, Bill Cosby did not receive a warm reception when he dared to tell the truth. Unfortunately, all too often that is the way it is today.
Feenix,
I saw the TV recording of the Cosby speech. At first, I thought the substance was right, but the delivery mode was over the top (too alienating). I didn't really get the point until I listened to several Pastor Manning sermons on YouTube. I think the point is that if you are trying to reach people who you don't feel are being rational due to ingrained false beliefs, ordinary syllogistic logic doesn't work. The listener just blanks it out (selective inattention). The only way to get through is via shock. The temporary "fear factor" forces people to open their mind and hear the message. I think it's really atrocious that people don't see this point. Many people criticize Pastor Manning for being a racist, an extremist, a violent radical, etc. What people are completely missing is that he is using metaphor to wake people up. He doesn't literally mean what he's saying in a textual sense. He's essentially providing very vivid analogy to get people to see that trashing our heritage of liberty is not the solution to the problem, but is the problem itself. Cosby, in somewhat more direct but less bombastic fashion, was doing the same thing. I feel bad now that I couldn't see Cosby's point in being so provocative when I saw the clip on TV, but I was quite young at the time. I think I would have analyzed it better had I seen it later in life.
Stu
Stu, one of the most difficult tasks in the world is telling people what to do or what they should do. And that is largely because the vast majority of human beings have minds of their own.
Over the years, I have learned that of the best ways to convey messages to others and to get them to change in their ways is to offer them suggestions.
When it comes to getting people moving on something, or to turning them around, more is accomplished through the offering of suggestions than through the issuance of orders or commands.
That is what I have been told by some very wise people but for me, the problems is I am not yet following their advice. I am still trying to order and push others around.
Hi Feenix,
The whole problem is that the things we need to do are so frightening we can't get people to agree to it. The fixes to our legal system (repealing federal abuses of enumerated powers) and our financial system (paying off the debt) require change and pain that is so severe that no amount of conventional convincing can work. The only solutions are shock speech and resolute leadership that transcends popular opinion. We basically have to have the medicine forced down our throats, in spite of the fact that we will hate it. It's sort of like a caring doctor or Mom doing what is right for a child, even though the child complains.
Stu
Yes, Stu, we progressives acknowledge a deficit and budget crisis, but the castor oil will go down a lot easier if provided by mom and dad and not mom alone. I don't trust conservatives and repubs and I need a bi-partisan solutions in congress before I and most of us will take the medicine. This is the view from the other side of the divide. I am sure you folks would say the same thing in regards to the crisis if the solution was one derived by the democrats.
Thanx Cred2
Stu, your comment is one of the best I have ever seen, because it provides some very sound and wise advice. I especially liked the part where you said words to the effect that the people need to hear a lot of "shock speeches".
I like that because I know that tough talk works. People do respond to it by doing what needs to get done.
Credence2, personally, I do not believe in "bi-partisanship". I believe that there should always broad divisions in government, even when the divisions causes delays, freezes or an impasse.
In my opinion, "bi-partisanship" is very close to a one-party system, like the one that existed in the old Soviet Union and that presently exists in such places as China and Cuba.
I hear you feenix, but as a result, we are condemned to endless impasse because nothing will get done because in our system no one side is going to rule the day. Inaction appears to be our biggest enemy right now. How is that problem circumvented?
Credence2, perhaps what the country needs right now is a little inaction on the part of Washington and the politicians.
Just look at where their action has gotten us: A couple of costly wars with one of them seeming to have no end in sight, a huge and rapidly growing deficit, a screwed-up healthcare system, and I could go on. And the right is just as much at fault for all that is going wrong as the left is.
Yes Feenix, I concur, but that still leaves us in crisis
No doubt about it, Credence2, it does still leave us in a crisis. Let us hope that some how, some way, this thing blows over.
During my life time, I have seen it happen before. I have some real big crises cease to exist, in no time.
For example, one of the biggest crises that ever confronted the U.S., if not THE biggest, was its decades-long face off against the Soviet Union. And it always appeared that the whole thing would end in a nuclear holocaust.
Then, all of a sudden and almost from out of the blue, the USSR collapsed and the Cold War was over.
Well, Feenix, these times try men's souls. I don't know if we are going to be "touched by an angel" this time. I worried about not having a plan, but as you indicate the plans of mice and men oftentime do go awry.
The USSR was unsustainable in its form. Between pressure place by Reagan and acknowlegement of the crumbling USSR by a relatively moderate Soviet Leader, Gorbachev, the unexpected happened.
Lets hope that when these walls come down under the current crisis too many people do not find themselves beneath the rubble.
Credence2, although it does not appear like it at times, I am an optimist. I believe that the U.S. will weather the current storm and go on to weather all of the ones that will certainly follow.
I believe that this is a great nation that will not fall anytime soon.
Agree, we both have a great stake that this works out as foundation of our comfortable lives and security as mutual retirees that have a lot riding on the fundementals of the 'system' continuing to work. The Stars and Stripes, forever!
Yes! The Stars and Stripes forever. And, Credence2, you and I have done our part to help make that happen.
Credence,
The reality is that neither the current crop of GOP's, nor the Democrats, have the guts to solve the problem.
The big federal entitlement programs like SS and Medicare are not only illegal (no federal enumerated power), but federal treasuries held by government agencies (the so-called off balance sheet debt) now stands at over $90 trillion, or 600% of GNP. We can NEVER repay it with any amount of fiscal restraint. The federal entitlement programs must be phased out quickly so most of the off balance sheet debt can simply be ripped up (since most of the agency liabilities go away).
We are running a federal operating deficit (i.e., excluding entitlement program costs) of $1.6 trillion per year. We have to cut federal compensation costs 50% to close the gap (a combination of headcount, salary, and fringe reductions).
Further , we owe $15 trillion to investors in US treasuries (the official national debt). We need to raise $1 trillion more in federal revenues each year for 30 years to pay off the pricipal and interest. The FIT has to be scrapped, because such a massive income tax hike (about 45% more than the federal government currently collects) would kill business investment and jobs, and actually lead to lower government revenues (80% of federal revenues comes from taxes on wages). We desperately need to broaden the tax base by going to a VAT or national sales tax. A 20% national sales tax on all end use goods and services would raise $1 trillion more per year than the current FIT and FICA taxes combined.
As I said earlier, we need it shoved down our throats. I know it's not pretty. But if we don't do it we are going to collapse. And we can't keep putting it off. Eventually, the debt will become so large no solution will work.
Stu
Thanks Feenix,
I appreciate it. Instead of the usual blather we hear from DC all the time, I'd like to hear someone like Pastor Manning shrieking from the Oval Office. It's the only way to wake most of us up.
Stu
Feenix,
Exactly. Bipartisanship is just a euphamism for milquetoast horse trading to ensure everyone gets reelected (you vote for my pork, and I'll vote for your's).
What we need now in D.C. is WAR. Moderates and liberals need to be sent packing in droves. Our biggest imminent threat is the debt crisis. From a financial point of view, we need a Congress with 535 clones of Jack Welch. No more kicking the can or slow mushy "phase-ins." Just identify all the fixes needed to spending and taxes, and implement them all at once. It'll still take decades to pay off the official debt, and abrogate most of the off balance sheet debt (by vacating SS, Medicare, etc. after phaseouts), but the full plan needs to be set in stone, and really executed. Not having a complete plan in place means stalling will go on forever. It's really an all-or-nothing crisis.
Stu
The problem is, Stu, that is highly unlikely that you are going to get a totally politically right legislature and executive to carry out your suggestion. People still have to vote you know, and the political right's power base is limited at best. What you speak of sound great, but it is not likely to happen, when has it ever happened?
Hi Credence,
We'll never have as good a shot as we'll have in 2012. 35% of the voters are mainstream conservatives or libertarian. 40% are centrists, and they are mad as hell about the jobs recession, and will be looking to put a GOP in the WH and more GOP's in Congress.
The issue is that just "GOP" isn't good enough. Almost all current GOP's are spineless moderates (they only block progressivism, but they don't roll back past progressivism). We need a major infusion of true conservative patriots in Washington who will drop an A-bomb on federal operating spending and entitlements, and put the federal tax base on steroids. The problem is that TPM pol's scare centrists, without a portion of which they can't win.
So what it's going to boil down to with the center is this: are they madder at the Democrats than they're scared of the TPM, or vice versa?
Stu
That is a great reply, But the change on the magnitude you suggest will mean complete removal of democrats and RINOs, even with Obama's current problems with the economy that is a tall order. The left still have bastions of influence that are not going to be swept aside easily. Thanks, Stu
Credence,
You are correct. About 25% of the voters are liberal or socialist. Even centrist GOP's would have a hard time getting a small number these votes; TPM pol's can't count on any of them.
As in all elections, the plurality center is the kingmaker. This makes things easy for RINO's. But conservatives and liberals have a very tough job - getting enough of the center to win, but without alienating their core voter base.
Stu
Stu From VT, Credence2, you lads had quite an exchange while I was away. And you kept it quite civil. Bravo for that.
Now here is my two cents.
So far as the massive deficit, I believe that even if both Houses of Congress reach a point where it is comprised by nothing but ax-wielding cost cutters, that will do little or nothing to solve the problem. The national deficit is a big powerful runaway locomotive that no group of politicians can stop.
Now, let us look back to the 1930s when the U.S. was in the throes of the Great Depression. So far as the country's economic status was concerned, that was a hopeless situation. There was nothing that politicians could do to bring that crisis to an end.
Then, along came America's entry into World War II, and that generated jobs, jobs, jobs and ultimately got the nation back on sound economic footing.
Well, I predict that some similar occurrence will get the nation out of its current economic crisis.
I predict that a string of unforeseen events will occur, or there will be some grand invention or discovery, that will generate rapid financial growth in this country beyond our wildest dreams; thereby, wiping out the huge deficit.
That is going to happen because that is what has always happened when the country was facing a serious, seemingly insurmountable economic crisis.
Feenix,
Sadly, I have to disagree. Counting official plus off balance sheet debt, we owe 700% of GNP. The official debt can be paid off, but it requires an annual positive swing of about $2.5 trillion in the current account (big spending cuts, plus a big expansion of the tax base) over several decades. The off balance sheet debt (mostly assets backing the liabilities of the big social programs like SS and Medicare) is far too large to pay off via any amount of fiscal restraint; the only solution is to phase these programs out quickly enough so that most of their liabilities are erased, allowing most of their treasury assets to be abrogated.
The above solution is the right way to proceed. Sadly, my guess is that the Federal Reserve will monetize to put off the day of reckoning. This will lead to major inflation. It will also possibly lead to a depression - the dollar will tank on the FOREX market, and production inputs that can't be sourced domestically will be unaffordable. Businesses could be forced to close en masse, creating crushing unemployment. The deficit/debt will soar due to higher interest rates from the money printing, soaring unemployment claims, and decimated tax revenue (80% of federal income comes from taxes on wages, and wages will be clobbered by unemployment).
My fears are not just theory. In FY 2010, Bernanke printed $2.9 trillion out of thin air to retire treasury debt and provide economic stimulus. Admittedly, this tactic buys a little time, but it debauches the currency, and has the potential to ignite inflation. This is not a "real" solution. To use Froggie's vernacular, it's just "kicking the can." The real solution isn't monetary, it's fiscal. The problem is that genuine fiscal reform is a political hot potato - everyone wants their own "goodies" protected, so everything in the budget is a sacred cow. As a result, Congress dreads facing voter wrath at election time, so they take the easy way out (put off fiscal reform, and let the Federal Reserve buy time by printing money). This just turns a present crisis into a future catastrophe. We need to act with serious fiscal measures before the problem becomes so large no solution will work.
Stu
Stu, you have stated your case quite well and you have far more knowledge about finance and economics than I do. However, I have been living for a long time and during my lifetime, I have seen our nation go through a number of tough times and I have also heard a great many doomsday predictions.
For example, back in the mid-1970s, one of the big predictions was that another Ice Age was on the way and by this point in time, the human race would nearly be extinct.
Now, we are NOT facing another Ice Age. That's been replaced by "global warming".
Also, back in the 1930s, during the Great Depression, numerous scholars and other "experts" concluded that financial crisis would lead to the collapse of the U.S. and the death of capitalism.
As I stated previously, either some unforeseen events or a major invention or discovery will occur and lift the U.S out of its current financial crisis, similar to the way that World War II brought an end to the Great Depression.
Hi Feenix,
Counting on a war to solve our problems would be suicide. In today's age of nuclear weapons, we would be looking at destruction on such a massive scale that the bulk of humanity could be threatened with extinction.
The Great Depression was a horrible time, business failure and unemployment being the worst aspects for the US. But unlike now, the 1930's did not present the issue of the virtually intractible debt overhang we now face. The economic risks now are much greater than 80 years ago.
We've also lived through over 100 years of amazing technological progress. The low hanging fruit is picked. While technology will of course advance, it is highly unlikely that any gigantic "magic bullet" will save us (e.g., some technology that makes us so productive that we can pay off the national debt easily).
The ugly reality is that we have to face the fact that we have a crisis, whose real solution will require great pain and sacrifice for decades. We overspent, using borrowed funds. The fat lady is singing, and the piper has his promissory note in hand.
We are running out of time.
Stu
Stu, I did not suggest that a war would be the tonic that would cure the nation's economic ills. I merely stated that WWII brought an end to the Great Depression.
And, Stu, I am very sorry but I am not pessimistic about the future of our country. I believe there will be a "silver bullet".
Ten or twenty years from now, workers from the U.S. just might be mining precious minerals and gems on Mars and transporting them back to this planet.
Hi Feenix,
You could be right about a magic bullet. The problem is time. Unless the magic bullet comes now, we need to really get to work. A magic bullet 20 years from now won't help; we'll already be over the cliff.
Stu
Great work here! It deals with both society from both outside of and within our community. If you notice, Civil Rights ultimately comes down to where we can go to make and spend our money. There are no provisions to address the ultimate damage of the way integration was handled. Access to the capital markets and the business structure that "Create" businesses and income. That's where we are today and why our communities are the way that they are. In 2009, we made 900 Billion dollars...more than most of the civilized world, but virtually none of that money stayed in the community. That is not any sort of accident. Until we find a way to repair the "Capital Creation" within our own community, we will suffer. No one, republican or democrat, want's to talk about that little fact!
Great hub sir!
Elder
ElderYoungMan,
Some time back, I saw some statistics that showed for every one dollar an American of Asian descent spends, it passes through the hands of other Asians of American descent about 12 times before it leaves their community.
On the other hand, however, for every one dollar that blacks spend, it passes right out of their community and does not pass through even one other black hand.
When it comes to average individual annual income, blacks are only one knotch from the bottom. The only group that is poorer than blacks is American Indians (or Native Americans, as they are often called).
That's correct and is a function of not having a business layer to our society, where those dollars can go from black to black. We earn plenty (set to be over $1 Trillion as of last year) but we keep none. Wealth isn't how much we make, but how much we keep. It's not because the money doesn't come to our hands. Any "Consumer" society is ultimately destined to be poor. Mainstream anglo-America is learning that lesson right now.
ElderYoungMan,
Yes, "mainstream Anglo-America" is now learning what happens when the people's dollars do not stay here in the U.S.
The massive purchases of such goods and resources as foreign oil, foreign autos, foreign electronics and foreign steel is helping to wipe this country out financially.
Now, I do not think that the U.S. will ever be able to end its reliance on foreign oil and to reclaim first place in the auto, electronics and steel markets.
So, what the U.S. must do is come up with a whole new generation of goods and services to export for the purpose of balancing trade. And I believe that, if government gets out of the way, America's biggest exports could be vast amounts of medical technology and pharmaceuticals.
Today, everyone in the world wants to be healthy and live longer.
The government isn't the problem in and of themselves. Multinational corporations and big money banks dictate to the government what they legislate and what they don't. If the profit motive didn't exist in research and development, we'd still be at the forefront of innovation. That was the anointing placed on this country to begin with. We sold out to allow old money to control what technologies were developed and which ones were not. Case in point, fossil fuel driven vehicles. The first hydrogen bomb was detonated around the time your were born. Oil companies pay car companies to stay with the standard fuel. That's what we settle for so now the rest of the world has caught up with us. If we walked in our blessing instead of worshiping the dollar, we'd still be comfortably out in front of the remainder of the world and our exports would still support a strong job market.
ElderYoungMan,
This is the real world we live in, not some Utopian society in which every thing always comes out perfect.
It would be swell if there were no villains lirking around but that is not, never will be and never has been, the case.
Personally, I am a realist who believes that it is what it is.
Again this is great. Most people are unaware of why these gangs really started and how the sanctioned thugs do everything they can to create negative images. The pictures really caught my eye, the zoot suit Edward James Olmost wears one in a movie and Denzel has on one in Malcolm X. Yet, the media is clever enough not to ever show and African-American and a Latino person in these suits at the same time.
platinumOwl4,
Thank you for the comment. And those zoot suits were real cool weren't they. As a matter of fact, my father was an L.A. "zoot suiter". Before he got a job working for the railroad, he was one of the "brothers" who went to war against the "Spook Hunters".
Great history lesson. Awesome. I am glad I ran across your hubs.
Hello, Reality Bytes,
Thank you for your comment and the compliment.
I really did enjoy writing this hub, because I am fascinated by the history of Los Angeles, especially as it has taken place since the 1940's.
Druid Dude Level 4 Commenter 11 months ago
Fee. Excellent hub.Coming from NY, and knowing more than I should, I can tell you that the modern Italiano and Sicilian descendants from around WW2 mainly focused on Italianos and Sicilians in order to control and, in some cases, intimidate immigrants and second generations from their own homeland. It all really started before that, in the Five Points. Voting up again. Pleasure to read and very informative. I might give you a tip on a place I know upstate NY.